We both have been making rolls for over 30 years. You can try one of Herm's rolls at my workshop at Pinecroft. He has been getting up at 6:30 each morning for thirty years to make fresh rolls for the Green Frog Tearoom. I get up later and make mine but often have to stay up later to fire them off. I fire mine a little hotter and a lot longer. I wonder how many rolls it would take to fill one of my casser-olls?